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This is an informal study that Gilbert Jorgensen and SDA Pastor Kevin Morgan did together on the definition of the term "Body of Christ".

 
Discussion Material
Gilbert Jorgensen   Kevin Morgan

As I am reviewing the SDA Definition of the Body of Christ, that you contributed to http://www.defendingthegospel.com/glossary/body-of-christ.php , I am seeking some clarification. It states:

Since Christ, in His physical body (Col. 1:22), is now in heaven (Heb. 5:7; 10:20), He works to accomplish His will on earth through His spiritual body (Eph. 5:30), which is a community of believers, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people (Rev. 14:6), confessing Him as Creator, Lord, and Saviour (Eph. 1:22, 23; 1 John 4:15). Each member of the body, with his or her own gifts and functions (1 Cor. 12:12-26), obeys Jesus Christ the Head, following His teachings in Scripture and accepting His leading through His Spirit of truth (Eph. 4:15).
From this description it appears that:
  1. Christ works to accomplish His will on earth through His spiritual body.
  2. His spiritual body is a community of believers, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people that confess Him as Creator, Lord, and Saviour.
  3. Each member of the body contributes his or her own gifts and functions.
  4. Each member obeys Jesus Christ the Head.
  5. Each member follows His teachings in Scripture.
  6. Each member accepts His leading through His Spirit of truth.
In your opinion is this a good way to identify the characteristics that you describe?

Gilbert
 

Yes.

 
Gilbert Jorgensen

Cool! We are on the same frequency at least. That is a good sign.

I'm trying to visualize how this works. It appears that we have the following objects or "things". Would you agree?

Objects:

  1. Christ
  2. Earth
  3. Community of Believers (Christ's spiritual body)
  4. Member (smallest atomic unit that makes up the Community of Believers)
  5. Scriptures
  6. Spirit of truth
Does this still look right? We are not dealing here with attributes, just objects that are used to create relationships.

Am I missing anything?

Gilbert
 
Kevin Morgan

Can't see anything missing. (I just realized how silly that sounds!)

 
Gilbert Jorgensen

Ok. Now that we agree on what "objects" are involved in your definition of the Body of Christ, I would like to turn our attention to how the various "objects" relate to each other.

Would it be correct to say that?

  1. Christ works to accomplish His will on earth through His community of believers.
  2. Each member of the community of believers
    1. confesses Him as Creator, Lord, and Saviour.
    2. obeys Jesus Christ the Head.
    3. follows His teachings in Scripture.
    4. accepts His leading through His Spirit of truth
Is there anything I have missed?

Gilbert
 
Kevin Morgan

One more
5. Is individually gifted to play a role within the body.

 
Gilbert Jorgensen

Oh. Yes. I didn't mean to overlook that one.

  1. Christ works to accomplish His will on earth through His community of believers.
  2. Each member of the community of believers
    1. confesses Him as Creator, Lord, and Saviour.
    2. obeys Jesus Christ the Head.
    3. follows His teachings in Scripture.
    4. accepts His leading through His Spirit of truth
    5. is individually gifted to play a role within the body.
Does this look better?

Gilbert

 

 
Kevin Morgan

Looks fine to me.


 
Gilbert Jorgensen
  1. Christ works to accomplish His will on earth through His community of believers.
  2. Each member of the community of believers
    1. confesses Him as Creator, Lord, and Saviour.
    2. obeys Jesus Christ the Head.
    3. follows His teachings in Scripture.
    4. accepts His leading through His Spirit of truth
    5. is individually gifted to play a role within the body.
Looking at relationships, we have:
  1. Christ working through the Holy Spirit to lead each member.
  2. We have the members responding to Christ's leading.
What about how the various members relate to each other? Do they have any responsibilities to each other? I don't see anything here about that here.

Gilbert

 

 
Kevin Morgan
Good point--that comes through their "giftedness."

is individually gifted to play a role within the body ... for the mutual benefit of the whole
Eph. 4:8 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. {captivity...: or, a multitude of captives}
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) {fill: or, fulfil}
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: {in: or, into} {stature: or, age}

 

 
Gilbert Jorgensen
This is an area that I am especially interested in "fleshing out".

To your way of thinking, within the Body of Christ are there any groups represented, or is it just a collection of individual members that all collectively make up the Body of Christ? In Bible times there was the Church at Ephesus, the Church at Antioch, the Church at Rome, and so on. I have been troubled by the total lack of anything resembling this in your description thus far, but it is equally important to me that I not influence how you articulate your perception.

Gilbert

 

 
Kevin Morgan

Don't know how you want to put this.

Not sure why this needs to be part of the definition. Was the Church of Rome one body of Christ, while the Church of Ephesus was another?

Individual churches are not separate bodies of Christ. They are part of one.

 
Gilbert Jorgensen
So it sounds like we have the following entities that make up the Body of Christ?
  • Christ (via the Holy Spirit)
  • Churches (groups of individuals)
  • Individual people
The Body of Christ in apostolic time was made up of "churches", which consisted of groups of people. Wouldn't you agree?

So then wouldn't it be reasonable to incorporate in our definition:
  1. How an individual relates to God (which is covered pretty well in the existing description)
    1. confesses Him as Creator, Lord, and Saviour.
    2. obeys Jesus Christ the Head.
    3. follows His teachings in Scripture.
    4. accepts His leading through His Spirit of truth
    5. ?
  2. How an individual relates to the group they are a part of
    1. is individually gifted to play a role within the body.
    2. ?
    3. ?
    4. ?
    5. ?
  3. How individuals relate to each other within the group
    1. ?
    2. ?
    3. ?
    4. ?
    5. ?

  4. How a group relates to God
    1. ?
    2. ?
    3. ?
    4. ?
    5. ?
  5. How groups relate to each other
    1. ?
    2. ?
    3. ?
    4. ?
    5. ?

(I put in question marks because the GUI editor tries to collapse the outline.)

I am trying very hard not to influence your thinking because what I am after is "your verbalization of the Adventist perspective" from the viewpoint of an Adventist Pastor.


Gilbert


Kevin, I don't know if this is applicable material for your point of view, or not. It is from 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 NIV
Divisions in the Church

10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

11 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you.

12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?

14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,

15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.

16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.)

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Your friend,

Gilbert
 
Kevin Morgan
You have a penchant for detail! That's what makes you so good at what you do.

Since I don't know where you want to go with this, it is taking me a great amount of mental effort to keep with the discussion.

Where is it that you are wanting to go?

 

 
Gilbert Jorgensen
Ok. Let's look at your situation. You have the following two churches.

Warrensville Seventh-day Adventist Church
227 Warrensville Dr
Warrensville, NC 28693-9347
336-384-2840

Wilkesboro Seventh-day Adventist Church
3879 Nc Highway 16 S
Moravian Falls, NC 28654-9428
336-667-1982

Presumably if you drew a great big circle that represents the Body of Christ as you define it, inside you would draw two smaller circles that represent these two groups of believers. Right?

For sake of an example, let's use your Warrensville location. It currently has a population of around 1,628 (year 2007). I notice that within fairly close proximity you have the following groups of people that meet. Would you consider any of these groups to be "circles" inside your larger circle, and if so, which ones?
.... 8 Churches ....
Warrensville Methodist Church
184 Church St, Warrensville (336) 384-2317
0.1 mile
Warrensville Baptist Church
130 Church St, Warrensville (336) 384-2840
0.2 miles
Clifton Baptist Church
972 Carl Eastridge Rd, Warrensville (336) 385-2074
4.1 miles
Full Gospel Church of God
1960 W Mill Creek Rd, Warrensville (336) 385-1663
3.4 miles
Warrensville Baptist Church
5154 NC Hwy 88, Lansing, NC - (336) 384-2518
0.3 miles
MT Jefferson Church of the Nazarene Psge
2657 Teaberry Rd, Warrensville, NC - (336) 384-3097
4.0 miles
Woodruff Primitive Baptist Church
1521 Elliott Rd, West Jefferson, NC - (336) 384-2185
Phoenix Baptist Church
7910 Nc Highway 194 N, Lansing, NC - (336) 384-2185
2.5 miles
Smethport United Methodist Church
200 Smethport Dr, West Jefferson, NC - (336) 846-1050
3.7 miles
Gilbert

 

 
Kevin Morgan

They're all part of Christ's Church. We count them as brothers and sisters in Christ and cooperate with them in community ministries, participating with them in holy week speaking appointments, and fifth Sunday sings. We know them and speak to them. We invite them regularly to share the Sabbath with us.

Do they have a full understanding of Eph. 2:8-10? (Saved by grace, created unto good works.) Most have only a partial one, and our Methodist ministers regularly chortle about the Baptist's emphasis on getting people saved and absence of teaching on sanctification. They're usually pretty good natured about it.

 
Gilbert Jorgensen

In apostolic times the early Christians would have met in "home churches". When the Apostle Paul would write to the Church at Ephesus, he was writing to all the early Christians in Ephesus that were meeting in the various "home churches". Wouldn't you agree? Today "home churches" are replaced with the more sophisticated "church congregations".

Let's suppose that the Apostle Paul is living today and he is writing a letter to the "Church at Warrensville". He would expect that his letter would be circulated throughout each of the "church congregations" that represent the "Church at Warrensville".

Based on what you told me earlier it sounds like these are the various "church congregations" that our modern-day Paul would have in mind when he writes his letter of instruction and encouragement to the "Church at Warrensville". Would you agree?

I have listed them in alphabetical order.

  • Clifton Baptist Church
  • Full Gospel Church of God
  • MT Jefferson Church of the Nazarene Psge
  • Phoenix Baptist Church
  • Smethport United Methodist Church
  • Warrensville Baptist Church
  • Warrensville Methodist Church
  • Warrensville Seventh-day Adventist Church
  • Woodruff Primitive Baptist Church

 

 
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